This post is in the Appendices category

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[00:00:00.00] Subject: when you write about this, what's my name going to be[00:00:04.01] whatever you want it to be ...[00:00:42.09]

A: I've been talking to (name) about what to do in a theatre context when you don't have control over the temporal domain

[00:01:38.05] Subject: my area of weakness need to overcome the live musician because of the lack of control


[00:04:14.18] Subject: what kind of sounds would you describe as painting on black?

[00:04:17.01] Interviewer: Ah OK

The situation you describe is exactly what I've encountered, I use an application called Cricket which is a quicktime player

[00:04:36.21] Interviewer: we used it for SubCon - (name) drove it. You define the order but you don't know when they are going to come in, so the painting on black, which is drones, literally or motion drones - [00:05:04.16] the difference I had with what I was doing is that it wasn't arhythmic so you would have a situation where you know what's going to go on in the scene, it starts with a drone, you introduce a drum part and then you introduce another one, it is in time, so you could button on the "go"[00:05:30.05] but the structure of the rhythms was such that they didn't have a strong meter, so you could pretty much drop a pattern in on any half a beat and it would work so long as you were reasonably accurate to that half a beat and the I'd have some that would lay on top, and then others that would replace the old one but had the old one within it, so you could either have a dynamic mix or a facilitated mix[00:06:00.11] and there were few occasions where you would have a rhythmic section or a tonal section which has to stop at this point.

[00:06:16.16] where you have a battle scene, and halfway through the battle they would stop and talk to each other, which is fucking ridiculous, but that's theatre! so they had elements that were slowed down, so someone would fire an arrow and the actor would literally carry the arrow across the stage and stab it into another character and everything would stop. And then stand there and talk to him while he died

[00:06:38.09] so we had it set up so that there was rhythms going on but at this moment the whole thing stops and the pad continues. I had what i called "stop files" so they are build out of the original rhythm, a big drum and a cymbal where it would hit and allow the other thing to come underneath it so it required the operator to perform, know all the activity and perform it. [00:07:13.05]

[00:07:12.17] and it worked really well for underscores as well where you are talking about dramatic tension, I'd have a couple of things that sometimes they's be working off beat to each other, and sometimes they's be on beat , and the actors would respond differently, which fascinated me so ...

[00:07:38.14] someone said about .... there's a long narration at the beginning, and things just seem to punctuate this really beautifully, and i sniggered, because in that piece, it was just co-incidence, there just happened to be so much detail and that's the thing with the painting on black. [00:08:04.12] if the painting on black has sparkly bits in it, they appear to occur at the correct time.[00:08:14.13] just been doing an exercise with ...

[00:10:33.19] Subject: what kind of me rhythmic phrases are you using, long phrases??

[00:11:34.24] Interviewer: no I use asymmetric. there'll be five bars of 5/4 and a bar of 7/4 and the pulse will change so they are quite - well depending what you want to do, if you know you've got a long section then you can build a steady pulse and then get out of the steady pulse, but a lot of the stuff I've done with ZZZ, they are quite asymmetric, so they know how they work, but if you're working at 7/4 and then 9/4, the audience is not really conscious of where the one is, so if you change it suddenly it doesn't matter, and they think, - you can construct it so its a surprise but doesn't feel out of place.

[00:15:47.07] what I find with the stuff that zen do ,they'll say, we have this movement and then we do this for fifteen seconds, and then we do that, and they're not really interested in the number of beats, a lot of the time they're ignoring beats, so they then looking for audible cues. The piece will be done and then they say, can you give us a cue about 5 seconds before ...

[00:20:30.13] I said what sort of music do you want? He said, look I love your stuff, you do what you like. Oh fuck that's not much help ! I said well can we use music like light, like colour? HE said give it a try so that's what we did.

I had seven or eight underscores which represented characters, essentially, so when one character was "in focus" that music was there, and if there was an altercation with another character, then blend them, it worked quite well, and the soundscape was very detailed as well. How reich can you make the environment before people give up?

[00:22:40.15] I think things for me are a bit more equal, the tendency to prioritise for most people is very strong. I'm not convinced that I see it quite the same way, there have been a lot of times in a theatre situation where I have said, do you think the music is too loud or the lights too bright and they are saying, no, everyones's concentrating on the action ... OK, do what you like.

[00:29:45.22] Oliver Sacks writes about discussing music with Temple Grandin and that she likes music because it's pretty, but it doesn't "move" her. And I have realised that it is pretty much the same for me I love music, I am fascinated by the way it sounds. But I can think of only a couple of times in my life where I've felt "moved" by music in any great emotional sense. being made really happy of brought to tears.[00:30:19.22] I've seen it happen to other people, and I've seen it with other people listening to MY music, and thought - thats a bit over the top ... but when I'm writing that's a different matter and there is a strong engagement for me, and sometimes when I listen back to my own music I remember the writing process, and then I have an emotive response. and in theatre, you see, complexity being built, emotive complexity. Everything going on on stage is directed literally by the director about conveying a particular meaning, so to be privy to watching that happen, I think that's one of the reasons I love theatre, because the meaning is really explicit, and you back, is it explicit enough, what can we do. Totally unlike real life really. is that relevant to your concept of music or whether you find that music is the peak emotional experience for you

[00:31:50.19] Subject: I think for a start I 'm always fascinated by the ... of audience. when I'm listening to something acousmatic, there's no other stimuli aside from sound from the speakers, even on that instance, I'm like "my God, what are the lyrics saying and how are the instruments conveying the technical features",

[00:32:34.21] Interviewer: you're thinking about it

[00:32:34.21] Subject: yeah straight away

[00:32:38.21] Subject: I can find emotion, once I've gone through that process,

[00:32:40.20] Interviewer: that's right, thats what they are trying to convey, I'll feel that then

[00:32:44.14] Subject: yeah

[00:32:47.18] Interviewer: its also very "in the moment" a little window of opportunity that goes past, one second, let's look at that one .... I find it very difficult it feel form to follow form

[00:33:02.18] Interviewer: yeah me too, I remember you saying years ago that when it came to theory you weren't able to hear things like sonata form

[00:33:21.14] I'm in that moment, not in for the long journey so much, so that fascination, and then I spend time with students analysing production values and going ah listen at that guitar, can you hear what's going on there, and its almost like you can take an individual sound out of that, and then you put it there and you can turn it around and have a look at it from each side and you can see the detail form that one little sound while the rest of it is still going past, that one little detail and then put it back and keep going again and that to me is wonderful...[00:34:02.18]I said this to my wife, about how I have realised that it's really not an emotional thing for me - I'm happy about it, I love it, and she's saying, after a while she said I think that;s really sad, and I said, why? I'm loving it. I'm enjoying it its not like I feel like ... when I came to the conclusion I though, so how should I feel about this, maybe i should be upset that I'm missing out on something - nah fuck it, I'm having a good time, so that;s what I said to her, well you experience it that way and I , I just assumed that everybody experienced it the way that I do and since I realised it, I say to my class, um, just let me know if I go on about this too much [00:34:58.24]

[00:35:20.19] zzz will often change the usage, because of wrong emotion etc, [00:35:39.03] I just go ok, you do what you like with it, once its done its done for me, I'm not attached to it I don't feel like I own it, its the process,

[00:36:00.08] Subject: (name) said the same thing to me, she said that the thing that is the most different about me, is that I was so attached to my process and my way of working, but once I'd finished, someone said lets change it or lets ditch it

[00:36:31.01] Interviewer: and you're "OK"

[00:36:36.01] Subject: yeah

[00:37:44.20] Interviewer: I had fun doing it, its all about me having fun

[00:37:55.02] Subject: people have said the same about me - there is no ego

[00:38:55.24] can i ask you stuff now?

[00:39:48.12] Interviewer: i want to ask you about the diagnostic process, because I've got seven students, not just my students, but in the building, who are either known autistics or so fucking clear that someone should tell them. I actually approached one student and said, look, this is what I'm like, um, does this sound familiar? {laughs} we talked about it a little bit "do you find this" and then a couple of days later I get a call from his mother ...anyway turned out he was diagnosed autistic at age 7 and since then he has seen the local people and been re-diagnosed asperger's. so I feel like I got that one right

[00:40:59.03] Subject: and he didn't tell you at the time?

[00:40:59.03] Interviewer: no they were kind of slipped it under the carpet for a few years and tried to sort it all out. So he had heard the term autism but they really didn't know very much about it ... but it was starting to impact in the rest of the class, but anyway - Allan you were my first

[00:41:33.22] and part of what I want to achieve [00:42:07.22] i suspect that had you not gone through this process, that things might have been a lot harder for you these last couple of years than it has been - not that the process is comfortable all the time.... there's and issue about flexible relationships that I wanted your thought on, because you are the other half of a flexible relationship. one that started of as a teacher and then perhaps a mentor and i like to think that we are friends

[00:42:51.04] Subject: yes

[00:42:52.03] Interviewer: and the fluidity of those relationships has been an issue for me as you realise, and do you find that the same thing occurs for you?

There's something about working with people in a musical environment, in the studio in particular, that especially with vocalists that there's a very intimate relationship that forms between the vocalist and the engineer, even through glass that trying to get inside someone in order to help them bring something out part of the emotion of music making - there is very strong connection there for me - that oxytocin conversation I had with you a while ago and then, when that's finished, what happens next, you know I've [00:43:57.10] never been into the concept of a one night stand,

[00:44:48.06] Subject: well as soon as you said that I thought of the time, semester had ended we had a weeks break, a lot of people go back to their lives, the other part of their life, whereas for me, a week of going back to uni is a cause for some concern. I remember calling you one time, Hello Colin its sunday, and I need to get into the Basil Jones room

[00:45:28.03] Interviewer: Oh yes and I went Fuck off

[00:45:28.03] Subject: you were looking at turtles ..times like that I thought i'm glad that the people I'v had these working relationships with have at least been the same sex, because at least you don't have to deal with that awkwardness. and the same thing happened with (name) in Auckland. Invitation to dinner - we're all friend, but the first night in Auckland, I said lets go visit (name), and (name) said are you sure - so we turned up at his hotel.

But I thought after that, what if had been someone else, would I have done that -

[00:47:54.01] Interviewer: the fact that (name) was wary ...

[00:47:54.04] Interviewer: I remember turning up after a concert everybody went down to the ship inn and I caught up with some of them , had my customary tomato juice and hung out. I felt really comfortable there but afterwards I wondered how comfortable they were

[00:48:52.18] Interviewer: i felt like, this is ok I feel like part of the gang, and I did feel like that, but then I thought much later, they probably don't want me to be part of the gang, they all have their own lives, and I've felt that fairly strongly recently,

[00:49:26.23] Subject: own lives - I see you when i'm making music, that's my life. that thing I do when I go home, eating sleeping ...

[00:49:39.17] Interviewer: and I have a family at home and my family at home are nothing to do with what I do here, and that was the thing with this emotional stuff, because, my wife says, about a bit sad, "that's why there;s no music in the house" because, you're not interested in listening to it except when you can analyse it. so why would you want to share that with the rest of the family, we don;t even have a decent sound system at home because I'm not prepared to buy one unless its really good - and i can hear all the stuff in there

[00:50:28.18] Subject: and you know that other people will be talking over it

[00:50:28.18] Interviewer: yeah I've got kids who are learning music and I'm not teaching them because - they're not good enough! That sounds bad doesn't it But they are not good enough to put the nuance in to put the detail that I want them to. ... well when do you ever go see theatre except when its something you've done its partly money ...

[00:51:30.19] Subject: andrew said to me on monday - andrew's known me for three years now ... and he said that he couldn't empathise with me

[00:54:29.01] [00:55:34.06]people don't make an effort to find out about other points of view.

[00:55:45.01] I'm interested in other people because I'm trying to figure out what the fucks going on with me.

[00:55:57.23] Subject: but also there;s and expectation that everyone else is always going to be different, but A hangs out with "scenes" but with me - Ryan interviewed me - he was interviewing about composing in the studio, and he asked they said every time they go into the studio they do the same thing, the same process. but with me, my process is different with every single piece, of course,


Interviewer: I have a certain group of ideas I use if I'm in a hurry, but its very much, what am I doing so how will I did, and if there is an opportunity to explore a new method then I'll do it, which is a bit odd, because you would expect a certain formularisation, a certain comfort of repetition of method but it doesn't appear to be the case. It seems that musicality is the one area that doesn't fit the cognitive profile

[00:58:34.10] Subject: that's what I thought with tim and andrew - I'm the one responding to context

[00:58:51.04] Interviewer: I think its an opportunity for meaning making, so therefor the ideal means for meaning making is the ideal means for music making

[00:59:20.08] Interviewer: to be honest when I listen to stuff that other people make, that they are only interested in the way it sound, almost the opposite. So why have you put that compressor there - because it sounds good, yeah but what does it mean? whereas, when I'm listening to it i'm trying to figure out, maybe that's what it is, they put it there because of the way it sounds, and there isn't any meaning in there, which is why I'm trying to find it I don't know ... but the music making process is that time when you can explore meaning and emotion in your own private space and if anyone else gets it that's up to them .

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